Neoprene

Aus derFacebook-Gruppe „Understanding Capitalism“:
Frank: General strike in all countries for May 1 and perhaps May 2. Viable? I think so.
Neoprene: This sounds inconsistent: Either workers in many states already right now see themselves in a situation to mount massive pressures to fight back the offensives of capital. Then they should rather sooner than later start fighting. Or the call for a May day „general strike“ ist just another rather symbolic gesture. This would be a strike as it is often called by the union tops to let off steam and then go back to business as usual.
Frank: ‎“Or the call for a May day „general strike“ ist just another rather symbolic gesture.“-Strikes are symbolic gestures? Symbolic of what?
Frank: „Then they should rather sooner than later start fighting.“-The problem is fixing a date. And a reason. May 1 and 2 is an excellent choice on both counts. It’s only two months away!!
Neoprene: Either the workers (or at least decisive sections with enough social power) are short of an uprising. Determined to bring down this system. Then it would be ridiculous to wait another month or two just to coincidence with May 1. Or the workers in their majority are far from anticapitalist minded then the most you can get is a „general strike“ that one could see in France or Italy so often: Begging the government for specific reforms by a symbolic short strike of a few hours or a day at maximum.
Frank: Bringing down the system doesn’t happen overnight. It’s ridiculous to think workers could do this next week.
Frank: ‎“Begging the government for specific reforms by a symbolic short strike of a few hours or a day at maximum.“-Strikes aren’t begging.
Neoprene: Strikes are very often only begging. And especially this sordid generals strikes a la France or Italy never transcended this militant begging. That they never were unlimited but consciously shorttermed speaks volumes. They never were meant to bring down the hated governments or push back the offensive of the bosses. The were as militant as the big red banners at the May demonstrations. But not a bit more.
Neoprene: ‎“Bringing down the system doesn’t happen overnight. It’s ridiculous to think workers could do this next week.“ Indeed, and therefore a real general strike is nothing to be called for by isolated leftists. It develops from fights, strikes and so on already going on. It extends from one industry to more of them. And even then it is a question of the aims of the workers movement. If it does not want to topple the government, to bring down the system then it rather sooner than later decides to put an end to the fighting. and of course you normally have the preponderance of reformist leaders in the trade union movement that from the start on are for the restoration of order.
Frank: ‎“Strikes are very often only begging.“-Strikes are forcing someone to do something. That’s not begging.
Frank: „They never were meant to bring down the hated governments or push back the offensive of the bosses.“-Tell that to the Greeks.
Neoprene: No strikes are indeed very often only a militant way of putting pressure on negotiations with the bosses or on the government. Especially in Germany where i live there is a decades old tradition of social democratic „struggles“ in this way: „Warning strikes“ short or rolling strikes that always only accompany the negotiations are *not* expression of the determined will of the strikers to reach a specific aim „by force“. And therefore teh trade union members normally accept the meagre reasults of the „strikes“ because they too saw these only as symbolic and not as meant to really inflict losses on teh other side.
Frank: ‎“Indeed, and therefore a real general strike is nothing to be called for by isolated leftists.“-So don’t take part. Stick to giving book reports on Marx‘ Das Kapital.
„And even then it is a question of the aims of the workers movement. If it does not want to topple the government, to bring down the system „-I think a lot of workers think society should be transformed. That’s the reason for the strike. Not to increase holiday pay.
Frank: Here’s the question: When does a strike become a sit-down strike? And when does a sit-down strike become a revolution?
Frank: And what will be the intended results of a global general strike?
Neoprene: ‎“Tell that to the Greeks.“ Greece is indeed another picture. But unfortunately even there the majority of the workers still seem to think that only *this* government coalition must be brought down and a more popular one should take its place. From the bigger parties only the KKE in some way stands left to the traditional Greek reformism. And coming from this same tendency (Stalinists have a bad hisrory of popular front coalitions that broke the neck of the workers in a lot of states) it still has to be seen whether the KKE realy sticks to its formal stance for class struggle.
Frank: ‎“But unfortunately even there the majority of the workers still seem to think that only *this* government coalition must be brought down and a more popular ane should take its place. „-That’s quite a skill you have in reading the minds of Greek workers.
Neoprene: No I do not read the minds of Greek workers bur only the newspapers and leftist web pages that give a picture of the Greek development. As i am in no position to influence this development I only can read on and make my guesses.
Frank: ‎“only the newspapers and leftist web pages „-maybe you could recommend a few.
Neoprene: But away again from Greece (which indeed is an important topic for any revolutionary minded leftist these days) and bak to your poposal: That was a very country unspecific call in a world of very different levels of class struggle and class consciousness. Denmark is not Greece for instance. This led my to my initial critical response to your general strike slogan.
Frank: Both Denmark and Greece are part of the global economy which has torn Greece apart. Those in Denmark I’m sure might think that they could be next. Not striking and just reading Marx will be worse.
Neoprene: ‎““only the newspapers and leftist web pages „-maybe you could recommend a few“
This is harder than thought. On my blog http://neoprene.blogsport.de/ I posted a few comments recently focusing on the KKE and Papariga as this is the left tendency of official Greek politics (and they translate some of their propaganda at least into some other languages as English) Smaller left groups in general do not seem to have the capacities especially language capacities, to deal extensivly with the Greek political developments.
Frank: A global general strike will be a way of bringing the world proletariat together.
Neoprene: I gave Denmark not as a proof that they are devided by gulfs from the Greek miseries. But to make the point that the class consciousness of the workers is not homogeneous. Neither in any given state noriin Europe at a whole. And therefoe slogans and demands for Europe at large are either very absract up to meaningless or falter at once
Neoprene: ‎“A global general strike“ is the most absurd slogan I heard in a long time: In most states the workers in their sometimes unfortunately overwhelming majority are not even organized in trade unions and you call for global action! And the revolutionray minded among this minority are still a much smaller minority (on average, in some states they are better off)
Frank: ‎“But to make the point that the class consciousness of the workers is not homogeneous.“-But in at least one point it is: that something is wrong with the economy.
Frank: ‎““A global general strike“ is the most absurd slogan I heard in a long time: In most states the workers in their sometimes unfortunately overwhelming majority are not even organized in trade unions and you call for global action!“-First of all, it’s not a slogan. How about ‚Workers of the world, unite!‘? Absurd? You don’t have to be in a union to call out sick. This ‚absurd slogan‘ will be a very good way to help unite all workers.
Frank: I think some ‚Marxists‘ and all Leninists don’t like mass working class actions because they have no control in such matters.
Neoprene: A bad thing is, that most workers only now, in the midst of a big crisis, feel that something is wrong. And fitting to this, do not want to get out of capitalism but long for the good old times of prosperity. Most workers insist on the less…
Frank: Fascists can get more influence on workers without a strike. More so than with one.
Frank: Funny how the ‚revolutionaries‘ and the ‚capitalists‘ have so much in common (like in avoiding general strikes)! Not many like the idea of workers taking things into their own hands. (except workers of course)
Neoprene: Your virgin „mass working class actions“ are a wish that never will come true. Since some 150 years now there has always been the struggle in the working class about the the obvious question (not only of Lenin) „What to do?“ And this is true these days too.
Neoprene: I will end this topic with my best wishes to you to strike as happily as you may feel. Much luck with your „general strike(s)“1
Frank: ‎“Your virgin „mass working class actions“ are a wish that never will come true.“-Then you disagree with Marx.
Frank: And I wish you luck with your internet site. At least there you are the boss.
Neoprene: I know: To be the „boss“ of a small web blog is more or less the same as a boss of a company that exploits workers. You are a true Marxist through and through. Besides being a revolutionary of course!
Frank: No it’s not. You need the workers. The ones you don’t want striking.
Frank: ‎“You are a true Marxist through and through. Besides being a revolutionary of course!“-‚True‘? I’m a worker. A revolutionary worker.
Frank: ‎“We do not have any models to offer for this event. Only the multitude through its practical experimentation will offer the models and determine when and how the possible becomes real.“-Kay Eske
There have been some workers occupying their work places. The second sentence I agree with completely.
F.: Neoprene surely does not sit on his chair just reading Marx since he seems to know about the current consciousness among the workers and he follows and analyzes the activities, strikes, aims and objectives of the working people es. in manyEuropean countries.It is true that many general strikes made in France and Italy or in Germany with their warn strikes – have had the objective of demanding better wages and better working conditions. They do not have the aim of changing the capitalistic system in their countries, they just want to be paid some just wages and be recognized in the society as a pillar just like the capitalist class. And their trade unions set these objectives – so that often the wage demands are demands that do not hurt the pockets of the capitalists and do not cause their governments to worry. After so many years of trade union work, strikes and activities, what you have now is not the improvement in the life of the workers but the opposite. A high unemployment rate, very low-paid jobs abound, many jobs are loan jobs or part-time jobs and jobs tenured for just a hsort time. A working poor populace increases – where they have to search for two or three jobs since one job alone can not feed the family. The conclusion out of this finding is that there is really a need to criticize this status-quo-conformed consiousness of the workers and their holding on wages which really are not their means to get a better life.
Neoprene: Unfortunately there is a long tradition in the left (some Trotskyist an anarchist organizations for instance are infamous for this) to substitute the convincing of the workers with empty radical sounding fight rhetoric. And the general strike slogan is a central part of this empty sloganeering.
M.T.: I dont get it. You look in the world and see nothing of any true revolutionary power which is trying to overthrow capitalism and than u troll enter the room screaming i have a great idea general strike on 1. And 2. May. If the worker would want that than they wil follow that idea, which wont happen. Get an idea about what modern unions politic is and how a modern worker sees himself in society. They are both nationalists and „understood“ that they have to take their desires back for the states desires. First you have to destroy this view towards the world before they will do anything. Another point is when they want to change something its about to know the reason of the existence of the unwanted thing and in most cases the reasons nowadays are not seen in capitalistic society but in things like greed or other human tendencies which exist seperated from every specific society, you have to argue against the workers view of the world, cause it is in most cases through and through contrarevolutionary. And your interested reading that neoprene does not want a strike is something i cant see